ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: May 3, 2012 8:08:21 AM
i put a dashed line to address other members that's still posting incorrect prices; i should have just posted a separate reply
yes, your local members are iffy; but some did read their whiteboard messages about the change when i find them posting incorrectly & actually thanked me for the info
--------------------------------------------------------------------
i've sent this to the mods and yet they still remain "silent"
it's not that hard to put something up on the home page alerting the changes
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TxJeans
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: May 3, 2012 6:19:43 AM
You chose to respond to TXJeans. I said I did not like getting off where I don't know if the price is cash and being surprised by a HIGH price premium for using credit.
You told me "
just assume it's the CASH price from now on since the rules have changed
that way, you won't get surprised... "
You proved the point I was making - if I have to assume all prices are CASH, I have NO WAY to know where to get gas away from my home stations. I will be surprised by the high credit price and would not know that the exit before or after or the station down the block is the best buy for the 81 percent that use plastic.
With that, GB becomes worthless away from my home route, and I already know which stations tend to be the cheapest on my home route on a regular basis. Truly, at home, if I don't check GB, I rarely lose by more than a cent or maybe 2 by going with my historic knowledge of the area which may not mean much if I am just "topping up" before a long trip. With my cash back, I am usually getting better price than the cash discounts here.Then you restated the FAQ. Sounds like you were accusing me of posting credit to meet the needs of the credit folks which I do not do - I will ONLY post prices for non-dual stations most of the time because I do not know the cash/credit spread and cannot provide decent information.
GB will soon be worthless to me if they don't address the issue of marking stations as cash discount in the MSL and/or provide a cash and credit price entry mode, especially if the price difference grows. If it requires a comment or manual flag rather than a separate box, the MOBILE APS folks will not flag the cash most of the time just as they don't tend to take the time to put in comments, and chances are, they will not bother to determine if cash price to put in the right box...especially with the stupid APS awards.
Things will be worse if they start using the GPS for mobile as folks will be posting while driving and will make MORE errors.
[Edited by: TXJEANS at 5/3/2012 7:29:02 AM EST]
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 11:39:05 PM
TX, i'm not re-iterating the FAQs for you... it's for other members that haven't been notified of it, like elmundo for example
and others that are mis-reading FAQ #15 with #16
the discounted price for having a membership card or carwash is a totally separate dilemma
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elmundo
Rookie Author
Washington
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 10:15:10 PM
I post the credit price. Out west its about 5 cents for discount for cash.
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TxJeans
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 10:11:50 PM
rice bike -
The issue is several things -
1 - The FAQ changed - there was NO ANNOUNCEMENT to the membership
2 - More people use PLASTIC than cash - check the recent poll
3 - The Website needs to be updated to make it easier to note if the station is a dual price or if the price is cash or credit.
4 - Those using Smart Phones and the mobile AP are posting on the fly and not adding comments.
5 - comments are not durable, so when the mobile ap person posts, they wipe out the previous comment indicating that there is a CC surcharge.
For me, when I am local it is NOT a big problem as I know which stations are cash price and avoid them like a plague. I can get a better price elsewhere with my 5% cash back card.
You did NOT need to reiterate the faq for me. I know what it was and what it is and I even understand WHY they made the change.
I do not understand why they did not announce the change, and if the East Coast stations are making cash and credit prices that disparate then having the means to flag that station as a dual station, or post both cash and credit prices is going to be more and more important. Folks are NOT going to give up plastic and start carrying large amounts of cash and they are not going to be happy to find the price on the GB that made them take exit 2 instead of exit 1 only to find it is cash only is going to leave some unhappy campers.
When I travel, I can only hope that the same brands in that area are the ones to avoid as dual pricing.
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Jescareno22
Veteran Author
Toms River
Posts:303
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 8:41:30 PM
?
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 11:00:31 PM
holy crap! thanks for confirming the huge price difference in certain parts of NY... that is crazy!
and i thought in NJ, the stations were ripping us off for using plastic by charging 10 cents per gallon
-0--------------------- the stations get away with it because of the wording "discount" for using cash
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rick_evans
Champion Author
Boston
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 7:46:20 PM
@insightcruzer -- "If it's illegal to charge more for credit, how do they get away with it? "
It's not illegal to charge more for credit. You just have to indicate the price is the cash price.
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insightcruzer
All-Star Author
Oakland
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 7:26:13 PM
I hope the area in which I drive doesn't become like the east coast-it sounds as though there the casch versus credit prices are really divergent and most stations here still charge the same for cash or credit. If it's illegal to charge more for credit, how do they get away with it?
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NYINYM1
Champion Author
Long Island
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 7:17:01 PM
I post cash prices. Where I am on Long Island, there are places that charge $1 - $3 more if using credit. It's becoming more and more common to see a station that says $3.99 CASH, $5.99 CREDIT.
On the droid app, the comments section is limited with the amount of characters to insert.
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 9:22:51 AM
TXJeans,
just assume it's the CASH price from now on since the rules have changed
that way, you won't get surprised...
the mobile apps do suck, i agree, because you can't see the comments that other members post
i'll post "+8 cents for Credit" or "+10 for Credit" in the comments section, but on mobile apps & on map view, the members will not see those comments.
----------------------------------------------
i'll re-iterate the FAQs #16 again:
"When reporting prices for stations in areas that have different prices based on method of payment, we ask that you post the CASH price where it exists. "
it's the norm here in NJ now that most stations want to milk the consumer if using plastic
(one member from another state stated that they get charged a flat fee for using a CC instead of robbing the consumer of 10 cents per gallon) & I'd rather have that small 35 cent charge instead to buy 15-20 gallons at a time...
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TxJeans
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 6:22:55 AM
Gas_Buddy said "Why is the credit price, to cash paying customers, the true price? I'm sorry but, to me, the cash price is the true price; the credit price reflects the price of credit with the necessary additional cost for processing the credit card transaction. "
Although I can see some validity in your comment, I can also see the other side. As to the card fees, that is a cost of business, and you cannot just say it costs the merchant fees MORE to handle credit cards because there is a cost benefit as well, and there are costs to handling cash. If cash only, staffing costs and security costs go up. If there was NO benefit to accepting cards most stations would NOT accept cards. Even the DOLLAR TREE now take cards.
The recent poll showed way more use plastic than not. When in my home market I avoid the dual priced stations. But when traveling, I may not know which are dual priced. I do not like getting off the highway based on GB to find that the station was CASH DISCOUNT price and that I should have taken the previous exit for the other station that was listed a few cents higher which is actually cheaper than paying CASH at the cash station with my CB card.
RichLWN (sp?) made a point that if they made comments durable, at least that would HELP, but I think someone also mentioned enhancing the MSL. With some stations in NY trying the $1.00 price differential, I think this is even more important that GasBuddy find a way to address this issue.
That said, I think they are NOT interested in providing the most useful pricing information but enhancing the APS to try and get more posters and more traffic to the site for more $$ from ads. Otherwise they would have found a way to inform the membership at whole of a MAJOR change in price posting rules. All these threads and they have not found a way to inform.
They will succeed with that mode of operations until they get a serious competitor.
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Apr 28, 2012 12:57:12 AM
yay,
more people saw this posting & changed their ways to reflect the new rules!
some still getting confused with discount club prices though... I rarely go there anyways, but that's a different subject
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2012 7:06:23 PM
Kirin wrote:
"In addition, since both all credit card merchant agreements, and the laws of many states forbid charging more for paying with a credit card, the credit price is the TRUE price per gallon at the station, and the cash price one with a discount applied..."
Why is the credit price, to cash paying customers, the true price? I'm sorry but, to me, the cash price is the true price; the credit price reflects the price of credit with the necessary additional cost for processing the credit card transaction. That the credit card companies, when they created the agreements the gas stations sign to accept the credit card, allow "discounts" for other forms of payment is semantics. If there were no credit card fees that the gas station had to pay, the "cash price" (regardless of what the gas station may determine the price to be) would be the true price. Just as the cash price is the true price when a gas station charges one price, regardless of form of payment.
As for "Truthfully what should be done is not allow such a pricing discrepancy to exist."
Why not? That is, why shouldn't a gas station be allowed to have tiered pricing? There's no discrepancy; it's tiered pricing based on method of payment. Or are you saying that all auto dealerships should have one price for a vehicle regardless of method of payment, and that there should be no "this finance rate applies only to persons of certain credit standing"? Sorry, but I see no reason why a gas station, in a competitive market place, with a lot of competition, shouldn't be able to price as it sees appropriate.
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Kirin
Rookie Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2012 3:55:22 PM
I have to add I disagree with this change, coming after a decade of use, with a rather weak explanation. In addition, since both all credit card merchant agreements, and the laws of many states forbid charging more for paying with a credit card, the credit price is the TRUE price per gallon at the station, and the cash price one with a discount applied, and as the FAQ also states, "we ask that the price be listed BEFORE any discount". Even though it claims that "cash credit prices function differently"; that's just a semantic decision they have chosen to make.
(For example, in NJ if you post the cash price on the sign, you must post the credit, but you're allowed to post the credit alone - there is a station that has posted Regular Cash - Regular Credit - Premium Credit)
The site has now become useless for those who choose to use credit, since you can't know what price you'll get when going to a station. Even if every price was "guaranteed" to be cash, you still can't know. To use an example of stations around here, at two stations with cash at $3.63, one was $3.71 and the other $3.73 for credit.
Truthfully what should be done is not allow such a pricing discrepancy to exist. As one can read, some areas are puzzled by the issue since all their stations only show one price. Even around here, years ago it was a flat 5 cent difference everywhere, then for a while no difference until a couple of years ago when this 'new' variable pricing scheme came up (some stations will have a 10 cent spread, e.g.). But that's dreaming the future and living the past.
What we do know today is that the cash price at a station with Credit $3.71 is probably cheaper than $3.73. Using the 2 stations above, if the cash purchaser goes to the $3.71 he gets the lowest price anyway, and the credit purchaser definitely gets his lowest price. That way both people can use the site and "help everyone make wise fueling decisions".
[Edited by: Kirin at 4/26/2012 5:02:03 PM EST]
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TxJeans
Champion Author
Tampa
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2012 6:03:32 AM
I think we are pretty much stuck with this issue for several reasons.
1 - it is easiest to post what is on the sign, and even if they have a rotating sign, those that post by ap (while driving no doubt) grab what ever they see (while glancing over at the other three corners). They do not take/have time to enter comments while driving.
Therefore, even if we have separate fields for cash and credit, or a flag for cash price, the APs users will likely not use it. Add in the stupid rewards for the APs users, and you will find those that are more about the "games" and rewards than posting accurate prices. Around here we have 2 that were posting same price for a temporarily closed station fenced off for repairs as the stations nearby. Since they post more than 5 prices, I don't know what their motivation would be except an AP game/reward?
I think RichLWN suggested that the comments should be durable and only erased when actively written over.
2 - GasBuddy has NOT announced their change or reasoning to the general membership.
I saw someone suggest that this was done because they don't have the means to distribute a message to the masses. I also saw someone post that they have no incentive to announce because the fervor over this lately is bumping page hits and revenue. I don't know if that even makes sense, but throwing it out as something that was suggested as a reason.
3- For now, I AVOID all stations I know that have a cash / credit dual pricing. Here in FL, I think it is REQUIRED that they post that it is a cash/brand CC price. But, it used to be posted at most stations with a small sign to the side that was easy to spot. The new electronic boards look like they may alternate, and others seem to have a little hard to see line below the electronic price in either another electronic window (station with this does not have that turned on), or non-electronic notice that is less noticeable as you drive by.
Maybe an updated MSL that would retain information and display an icon for the dual price stations, or a durable comment tied to the MSL?
I can usually, around here, still beat the cash price using credit at the same or other station nearby with my 5% discount.
[Edited by: TXJEANS at 4/26/2012 7:08:21 AM EST]
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cogas1
Veteran Author
Colorado
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2012 3:04:42 AM
I know. There is only one station that I know of in my area that posts cash and credit prices on their big sign, and others often report the credit price.
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HeavyDuty_cache
Champion Author
Omaha
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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2012 11:16:10 PM
I have found that a lot of stations around me have their diesel fuel more expensive for credit users along the Interstates.
It really hate the fact that we post the cash price. It has gotten me a couple of times now, I see a price and go there and find out it is only cash.
Their policy has make this site almost useless when it comes to getting a correct price.
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Apr 25, 2012 10:01:06 PM
desertrat, wow that sucks for diesel... i haven't run into any stations here that charges more for using plastic to buy diesel fuel
most truckers doesn't use cash to buy 100s of dollars of fuel in one fillup
[Edited by: ricebike at 4/25/2012 11:02:09 PM EST]
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gvan
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2012 10:56:14 AM
"In my area people are posting the price with carwash as the lowest price which is false as it costs you more in the end. I haven't seen any stations with a cash price."
The "without car wash" regular price is supposed to be posted. The price "with car wash" can be posted in the Comment section.
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2012 9:10:11 AM
ACConverse wrote:
"Often, the Regular Cash and Regular Credit price are listed on the main gas station sign along with a credit price for the remaining grades. How should I handle that?"
In your comments section, indicate "Mid-grade and Premium are credit prices".
that should solve your problem.
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ACConverse
Rookie Author
New York
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Message Posted: Apr 7, 2012 11:52:12 PM
People are clearly confused about the policy. Different members continue to report different prices (credit v. cash) around here. I've also noticed, in other cases members not simply not reporting prices at all (or less frequently) for stations with a cash/credit price difference. Stations that used to be updated daily (when cash/credit prices were equal) often aren't reported for more than 48 hrs now because people aren't sure how to handle the new price disparity between cash/credit.
I'm trying to report cash price, rather than credit, but it isn't easy. Often, the Regular Cash and Regular Credit price are listed on the main gas station sign along with a credit price for the remaining grades. How should I handle that?
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DesertRat2011
Champion Author
Riverside
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2012 10:29:55 AM
There are a couple of truck stop that I post that charge more only for diesel if payed by credit. Seems that every time I post the diesel price the last person always has the credit prices posted. POST CASH PRICE ONLY !!
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Apr 4, 2012 8:13:42 AM
already know that...
but ARCO is a business that is more honest ... flat .35 cent fee for plastic is a reasonable cost to spread it around for ALL the customers
if a business don't like it, they can omit their credit card fees by not accepting it. some businesses still deny american express cards, for example, because they are one of the highest charging cards for merchants
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author
New Hampshire
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Message Posted: Apr 2, 2012 3:56:42 AM
ricebike - "i totally agree with paying the flat fee for the credit card transaction... wish more stations do that in my area instead of charging extra by the gallon"
I can see them charging an extra per gallon cost for using credit cards because that's how they get chaged by the credit card companies. If they are being chrged 2% of the transaction (on average) in fees then if you buy 1 gallon of gas at $3.50/gal the station is being charged 7 cents for the transaction fee. But if your buying 20 gallons then the station is being chrged $1.40. So the flat rate in a lot of ways really doesn't work that's why most stations chrge the extra per gallon. Most around here are 5-10 cents a gallon more for credit. It depends on what their average transaction fee rate is. But if you want to avoid that all together than pay with cash.
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yuckandmuck
Champion Author
Worcester
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Message Posted: Apr 1, 2012 1:11:14 PM
Almost 2 months since the cash/credit price posting policy change and still no announcement from GB alerting members about the change. Here are some related threads:
change in cash vs credit price posting policy
correct way to post prices
Add a cash/credit check off box on mobile app
Cash or Credit Price.
So don't I look like a fool
Cash or Credit
I have an issue with the credit/cash price FAQ
Reporting 'Credit' prices
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thawp66
Rookie Author
Long Island
Posts:2
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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2012 7:12:13 PM
To sum up what ricebike said, "is it really that hard to put in the comments field "+10 cents for Credit"?" I try to do this every time I post. I hope I start a trend.
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Mar 23, 2012 8:42:31 AM
"they then inform you there is a 35c fee. That however is better than most stations charging 10c/gallon per fill up."
i totally agree with paying the flat fee for the credit card transaction... wish more stations do that in my area instead of charging extra by the gallon
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Nitecrew
Champion Author
Fresno
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 9:47:20 PM
Good to see we've returned to the"lowest price" and not the credit card price
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 6:38:55 PM
jono0143 wrote:
"ARCO doesn't post cash/credit. They just post a price (cash)and if you use your card, they then inform you there is a 35c fee. That however is better than most stations charging 10c/gallon per fill up."
ARCO does not accept credit cards; they accept debit cards. And they, as they have for years, clearly post signs that indicate that there's a fee for using a debit card. They don't inform you after you buy the fuel. They done this for years, they clearly indicate on their website and explain their reasoning, and they clearly explain it on signs at the gas stations.
"...better than most stations charging 10c/gallon per fill-up".
'Not sure what that means unless you're saying that paying the ARCO debit card fee (if YOU decide not to pay by cash, if YOU make the decision to pay by debit car instead of cash) is better than paying 10 cents per gallon more AT OTHER GAS STATIONS for credit card purchases if there's a cash discount at the same station (upper case letters for emphasis on key words). But that's not what you wrote.
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kookiwoogi
Champion Author
Indiana
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 5:24:28 PM
After working retail for umpteen years, the lowest price was posted. If you want to pay by some other method, then, it is your choice. I can't see anything different with gasoline.
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jono0143
Champion Author
Orange County
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 5:05:10 PM
ARCO doesn't post cash/credit. They just post a price (cash)and if you use your card, they then inform you there is a 35c fee. That however is better than most stations charging 10c/gallon per fill up. Unless you only bought 1 gallon say for your lawn mower.
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pper
Champion Author
Grand Rapids
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 11:58:00 AM
In my area people are posting the price with carwash as the lowest price which is false as it costs you more in the end. I haven't seen any stations with a cash price.
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 10:39:43 AM
as for pinbuster's statement, I used to do that as well...
now it's REVERSED
post the CASH lowest price and put the CREDIT in the comments field
at least the members in my immediate area are complying
<shrugs>
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ricebike
Champion Author
New Jersey
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 10:37:55 AM
ok cliff notes:
the site changed their preference when posting CASH VS CREDIT CARD prices
they prefer CASH now
I had a short argument with a member from omahagasprices.com and that
"OLD DOG doesn't want to learn new tricks" cough ~ HeavyDuty_cache ~ cough
oh well, I've learned to change my postings to reflect what this site wants
ps: is it that hard to put in the comments field ? ~
" +10 cents for Credit "
[Edited by: ricebike at 3/22/2012 11:43:53 AM EST]
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Gas_Buddy
Champion Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 10:18:58 AM
timl2k8" wrote:
"Ignore the guideline, it is misguided. Most people pay with credit. That is what should be posted, doing otherwise would reflect an artificial drop in average gas prices."
No; you don't ignore the guideline; you follow the guidelines because it's not your website. If you want to use your own guidelines, then you start your own website, and allow people to follow-your guidelines (or not). You can work to convince the moderators of this website why they they should change the guidelines, but until they agree to do so, or until they agree you can post whatever price you think should be posted, you follow the guidelines.
MertieMan wrote:
"The prices posted should always be what is on the sign out front, and in most cases that is cash, especially within this area."
I don't particularly disagree because the guidelines aren't that you should stop your car and physically check the pump for varying prices, and you have tp assume that what's posted on the price out front is the single price, unless there's an indication that it's a cash price (or that there's a discount for paying cash, or some other discount). As long as the accepted price is the "I saw the price as I drove by the station...", that should generally be the price on the sign out front. As MertieMan wrote.pinbuster2005 wrote:
"What you should really do is post the credit price because it's higher then post in the comments that something like "5 cents a gallon discount for cash" or "cash price 5 cents lower"..."
That was, as most of us know, the rule of price posting until recently, because of the logic that most Gas Buddy members pay by credit card. (For that matter, many members have indicated that they refuse to pay cash, even with a discount, because they get a rebate, they earn frequent flier miles, they don't carry that much cash, or because they (simply) refuse to carry cash or pay for anything with cash.)
The Gas Buddy management has apparently determined that posting the cash price is in the best interest of the majority of members because it reflects the lowest price, and that a lower cash price could/would sway many members who want to save at the pump but would otherwise not know that there's a lower price available if two competing gas stations listed credit prices two cents apart (for example) but the higher priced credit station offered a cash discount price several cents below the lower-priced-credit -station.
It's their website that we're only using; they set the rules and guidelines and all members should be expected that we follow the guidelines for consistency, and so there's no confusion. If we don't want to follow their rules, then we can try to convince them to change the rules, we can start our own websites with the rules we want, we can join another gas price posting website (and there are others (as well as websites, such as MSN Auto, that post prices as they're received from the gas stations, based on credit card transactions), or we can simply quit the whole thing. To me it's a simple choice; follow the rules.
depending on what price they have on the sign. I post one station here that has the cash price on the sign so I have in the comments for that station "credit price 10 cents higher"
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WEPSMAN
Champion Author
South Dakota
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 9:24:42 AM
A majority of prices here are the same.
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Dennis783
Champion Author
Des Moines
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 8:28:23 AM
I too post whatever it says on the sign.
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AFOS
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 7:31:20 AM
I routinely pass zero stations that advertise a cash price.
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MertieMan
Champion Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 4:53:33 AM
The prices posted should always be what is on the sign out front, and in most cases that is cash, especially within this area.
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pinbuster2005
Champion Author
New Hampshire
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 3:56:49 AM
What you should really do is post the credit price because it's higher then post in the comments that something like "5 cents a gallon discount for cash" or "cash price 5 cents lower" depending on what price they have on the sign. I post one station here that has the cash price on the sign so I have in the comments for that station "credit price 10 cents higher"
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timl2k8
Rookie Author
Tampa
Posts:92
Points:73,580
Joined:May 2008
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Message Posted: Mar 22, 2012 12:39:48 AM
Ignore the guideline, it is misguided. Most people pay with credit. That is what should be posted, doing otherwise would reflect an artificial drop in average gas prices.
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