SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2011 9:25:53 PM
RedRider1OK, it's been over a year and a half and California still produces and sells ethanol. Are you still making this prediction?
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 27, 2011 1:51:43 AM
Looks like corn-based ethanol in California to stay.
GreenShift Corporation today announced the execution of a license agreement with Calgren Renewable Fuels providing for the use of GreenShift’s patented corn oil extraction technologies in Calgren’s 57 million gallon per year ethanol plant in Pixley, California.
Calgren will have taken the first step to achieving corn oil yields that could be as high as 1.33 pounds per bushel and having at least one advanced technology as described in the final rule for the expanded Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS2) published by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on December 21, 2010.
Corn oil?????? Isn't that the same stuff that we use in salad dressings and margarines?
Gosh, maybe ethanol is not such a bad idea after all.
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mus302
Champion Author
Knoxville
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2011 4:24:21 PM
LOL
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stickyvalves
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Jan 26, 2011 9:40:52 AM
Interesting how people fail to pick up on sarcastic writing. I've seen that in other threads. Whew! Let's lighten up.
The million instead of billion was obvious. Let's see, there is an 'n' between those letters on the keyboard. How many is a 'nillion"?
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2011 1:01:03 PM
"So, if I understand you correctly you are saying that you purposely repeated what you knew to be incorrect information in an attempt to make a point."
Well, it was more a sarcastic reply then anything else...
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mus302
Champion Author
Knoxville
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2011 11:23:50 AM
"Hey, I'm not the one who claimed that 14 million gallons of ethanol were produced per year, that would be SS who was in error. "
So, if I understand you correctly you are saying that you purposely repeated what you knew to be incorrect information in an attempt to make a point.
"With refineries currently operating at 75% - 80% capacity, that amount could easily be removed without effecting prices significantly... "
Let's hope that not everyone has the same shortsighted thinking you have. The summer driving season is what you have to worry about.
Bloomberg - August 10, 2010 - "Refiners increased operating rates to a 34-month high of 91.5 percent last month as the economy recovered and motorists purchased fuel for summer vacations."
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 25, 2011 8:08:44 AM
"Close there shockjock, you are only off by a factor of 1000 on the ethanol production part and about a factor of 2 on the gasoline consumption part."
Hey, I'm not the one who claimed that 14 million gallons of ethanol were produced per year, that would be SS who was in error.
"Now if you think that that much ethanol could be removed from the fuel supply without effecting the price of gasoline you may be under the influence of those 'heavy duty hallucinogenic drugs' you mentioned."
With refineries currently operating at 75% - 80% capacity, that amount could easily be removed without effecting prices significantly...
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2011 4:30:37 PM
"The next thing we will be told is that distillers grains is just as good as corn"
No, cummins2500, actually you will be told that it's better than corn -- when integrated as part of a properly balanced ration.
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mus302
Champion Author
Knoxville
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2011 3:29:29 PM
"The US uses over 800 Million gallons of gasoline PER DAY. So if you think 14 million gallons of ethanol produced in a year have any effect on the price of gasoline, you are taking some heavy duty hallucinogenic drugs... "
Close there shockjock, you are only off by a factor of 1000 on the ethanol production part and about a factor of 2 on the gasoline consumption part.
So, lets start at the top. According to the EIA for the latest available month which would be October 2010, 9,086 thousand barrels per day of Finished Motor Gasoline were supplied.
9,086 x 1000 x 42 = 381,612,000 gallons
Of course that number includes the amount of ethanol blended into the gasoline supply. From the EIA's Definitions, Sources and Explanatory Notes.
"Finished motor gasoline includes all ethanol blended gasoline (e.g. E10, E85)."
According to the EIA, 37,128,000 gallons of ethanol were produced per day in October 2010. There would be a bit of lag time so not everything produced in October would make it into the fuel supply in the same month and a small amount would end up being exported.
So of that 381,612,000 gallons, about 344,484,000 came from petroleum and 37,128,000 came from ethanol.
Now if you think that that much ethanol could be removed from the fuel supply without effecting the price of gasoline you may be under the influence of those 'heavy duty hallucinogenic drugs' you mentioned.
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chipote
Champion Author
Washington
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2011 1:34:09 PM
Good news.
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Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2011 12:43:29 PM
The next thing we will be told is that distillers grains is just as good as corn even though during the process of making Ethanol it loses its starch, gluten an other nutrients.
I also like this about the Nebraska study "A University of Nebraska study in 2009 showed corn ethanol directly emits 51% less greenhouse gas than gasoline. However the study does not take into account the greenhouse gasses involved in production and transportation."
But then why would anyone think the ethanol industry would tell us the Nebraska study let out important information that made Ethanol look good.
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
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Message Posted: Jan 24, 2011 11:14:04 AM
"2/3 of every bushel of corn used for ethanol production is indeed returned to the food chain in the form of distillers grains and corn oil."
Where it displaces additional corn -- as much as half -- in livestock diets.
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bochevy
Champion Author
Sarasota
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2011 5:02:38 PM
where are the ethanol stations they promised us anyway? I have an e85 Suburban that I have had for almost 8 years and have never put e85 in it.
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2011 4:31:50 PM
"RetiredD3, the US produces about 14 million gallons per year of corn based ethanol. If you really believe that "Diverting corn to fuel has done nothing to reduce gas costs or foreign oil imports", you have been listening to too much big oil propaganda!"
The US uses over 800 Million gallons of gasoline PER DAY. So if you think 14 million gallons of ethanol produced in a year have any effect on the price of gasoline, you are taking some heavy duty hallucinogenic drugs...
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2011 4:27:08 PM
"Cummins2500, they currently use corn because it is more economic to use than switchgrass."
Of course corn is not economical either, which is why the taxpayer is on the hook to make it look like it is....
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
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Message Posted: Jan 23, 2011 2:31:43 AM
"keep the corn in the food chain"
Wow, plenty of misinformation out there. 2/3 of every bushel of corn used for ethanol production is indeed returned to the food chain in the form of distillers grains and corn oil.
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Bus936
Champion Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 11:11:33 PM
Then lets adapt all of the current vehicles to use ethanol and stop using gasoline altogether. Do I have any offers of assistance to adapt my car and truck?
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 2:08:54 PM
RetiredD3, the US produces about 14 million gallons per year of corn based ethanol. If you really believe that "Diverting corn to fuel has done nothing to reduce gas costs or foreign oil imports", you have been listening to too much big oil propaganda!
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James48843
Veteran Author
Michigan
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 2:06:33 PM
They should get rid of gasoline entirely.
Biodiesel is so much more efficient.
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RetiredD3
Champion Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 1:52:23 PM
I agree with chelaramie, keep the corn in the food chain. Diverting corn to fuel results in higher animal feed costs, which means my Egg McMuffin and Chicken Nuggets cost more! Diverting corn to fuel has done nothing to reduce gas costs or foreign oil imports!
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 12:26:26 PM
In spite of the doom and gloom predictions by RedRider1OK, California still has 5 operating plants using corn as feedstock.
Cummins2500, they currently use corn because it is more economic to use than switchgrass. Once they figure out the technology to use switchgrass economically, the corn based plants can be easily converted.
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Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 9:37:56 AM
If they want to make Ethanol then they need to be making it from things like switch grass that give 7-8 time more ethanol then corn does and does not need the government to give taxpayers $$$ to those who grow it.
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chelaramie
Champion Author
Dallas
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Message Posted: Jan 22, 2011 9:05:04 AM
They should get rid of ethanol entirely, it's a waste of food and energy.
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BobD2009
Champion Author
Long Island
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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2010 12:06:12 AM
They should get rid of ethanol entirely, it's a waste of food and energy.
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djtdi
Champion Author
San Jose
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Message Posted: Dec 21, 2010 12:02:14 AM
That's incredible! Wow.
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mike352
Rookie Author
Gainesville
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Message Posted: Nov 15, 2010 8:06:29 AM
wow
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SilverStreaker
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2010 10:17:49 AM
Despite all of the doom and gloom rhetoric spouted here, California is still investing in ethanol. According to an International Business Times article, "The California Energy Commission has awarded more than $9.6 million in state funding to make components and biofuels required for manufacturing electric vehicles."
"Great Valley Energy LLC has been granted $1.98 million to test the feasibility in creating biofuel from a crop new to the Central Valley - sweet sorghum. Team partners will provide match funding of $2,000,270 to install a pilot sorghum separation and testing facility in Hanford. If the testing is successful, the team will consider building smaller-scale ethanol plants distributed across the valley to be close to the sorghum fields to lower transportation costs. Each of the commercial refineries could create an additional 20 jobs. By 2020, Great Valley Energy estimates it could have 15 small dispersed plants, each capable of producing 3.15 million gallons of ethanol a year."
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OilerFan
Champion Author
Tulsa
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Message Posted: Nov 14, 2010 9:08:20 AM
Pushing ethanol was never a good idea. It's not as ecologically beneficial as we were led to believe, and there have been unintended consequences.
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chelaramie
Champion Author
Dallas
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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2010 1:34:12 PM
Great!
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zippok
Rookie Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Nov 2, 2010 10:25:45 PM
GREAT
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Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Oct 31, 2010 5:02:29 PM
Goldie "Did you know that the FDA is part of a huge federal bureacry that often gets it wrong?"
You mean you don't agree this time with the FDA because it does not back up what you and the ethanol industry happen think or want..
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Maintroll
Champion Author
Lexington
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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2010 8:38:26 AM
Good, how about ethanol disappearing completely from the scene?
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mike352
Rookie Author
Gainesville
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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2010 7:00:40 AM
wow
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goldseeker
Champion Author
West Virginia
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Message Posted: Oct 30, 2010 1:59:10 AM
"Did you know that the FDA is worried about the antibiotics used to make Ethanol, it was found in more then 50% of all distiller grain they sampled, that grain is feed to farm animals we eat."
Did you know that the FDA is part of a huge federal bureacry that often gets it wrong?
Did you also know that antibiotics are used throughout the livestock industry beginning at birth, and lasting through slaughter?
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Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Oct 29, 2010 3:33:02 PM
Shock,
I made a mistake for some reason, guess I'll chalk it up to a brain fart.
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pgerassi
Champion Author
Milwaukee
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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2010 5:18:31 PM
CARB uses the burning of Brazilian rainforests as the reason why ethanol isn't CO2 absorbtive. This fails to take into account that corn ethanol is only produced here in the US in huge quantities. How can a US farmer burn rainforests in Brazil (normally done to produce sugarcane)? The answer is that he can't and doesn't. Thus the CARB argument is full of shit, crap, garbage, manure and sewage. When independents look at the US corn ethanol industry, they see it as CO2 absorbtive and energy producing which directly contradicts CARB. They do include the various byproducts
Yes the US does import sugarcane based ethanol from Brazil, but it is a small fraction of the ethanol produced here. If CARB uses that argument, then California would have to ban the use of crude oil based gasoline and diesel for the very same reasons. Since they don't, they are kowtowing to their local industries, period!
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2010 3:10:17 PM
Antibiotics are used against bacteria. They have no effect on virus's. Just FYI...
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Cummins2500
Champion Author
Iowa
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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2010 3:02:57 PM
NightshadeKY, Wrote: the grain used for the production of ethanol is then fed to cattle"
.
.
Did you know that the FDA is worried about the antibiotics used to make Ethanol, it was found in more then 50% of all distiller grain they sampled, that grain is feed to farm animals we eat. The problem is the antibiotics found in the distillers grain has never been allowed by the FDA to be used in animals for human consumption thus we maybe exposing our self to an untold major problem of some virus becoming resistant to current antibiotics down the road and that could cause major problems for all humans.
[Edited by: Cummins2500 at 10/28/2010 4:03:25 PM EST]
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Shockjock1961
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2010 9:52:09 AM
"For example - if a cow requires 101 lbs of post-ethanol production corn to replace 100 lbs of unprocessed corn, then only a single lb of corn was used in the production of that batch of ethanol, not 101."
Not quite. If it takes 250 lbs of unprocessed corn to produce the 101 lbs of post ethanol feed, you've consumed 151 lbs of corn...
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NightshadeKY
Rookie Author
Kentucky
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Message Posted: Oct 28, 2010 9:48:15 AM
How much ethanol is currently made from food stock?
It was my understanding that ethanol production currently exists in a symbiotic relationship with cattle production - the grain used for the production of ethanol is then fed to cattle.
If that's the case then the only consumption of food stock is the net difference between how much unprocessed corn you need per head of cattle and how much post-ethanol production corn is needed.
For example - if a cow requires 101 lbs of post-ethanol production corn to replace 100 lbs of unprocessed corn, then only a single lb of corn was used in the production of that batch of ethanol, not 101.
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sluggopyle
Champion Author
North Carolina
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 8:44:08 PM
Oh come on 10k- our lack of label law was there long before Bev Perdue. And the ethanol scam has nothing to do with either her or O'bama.
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10k
Champion Author
North Carolina
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 2:07:19 PM
it be nice if the idiots-in-charge in north carolina would ban this crap also-but no, h*ll no, stations can sell that crap w/o even marking it..
our female governor is another nobama wannabe-but she will get hers in 2012 also..
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hermann2012
Veteran Author
Kansas City
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 8:40:27 AM
I like that.
Finally a sane thought from Arnoldland
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jimbeaux53
Champion Author
Kansas City
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Message Posted: Oct 10, 2010 7:34:07 AM
One way to force ethanol production from bio waste instead of food stocks. Interesting!!!
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FieroGT
Champion Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted: Aug 13, 2010 5:51:44 AM
Interesting. I had not heard the trend to get rid of ethanol blends like E10. I'm all for it ... ethanol is a lousy alternative fuel for a low of reasons.
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lovemymac
Rookie Author
Kansas City
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Message Posted: Aug 10, 2010 1:49:50 PM
Would be nice if it was gone everywhere. IM so tired of getting gas and the whole station has 10% ethanol in all grades. Or having to pay 10 -15 cents more to get the gas without it in it.
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NeedGass
Rookie Author
Orange County
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Message Posted: Aug 5, 2010 7:34:10 PM
(RHETORIC, not proven fact) The C02 levels are reported to be more harmful to the ozone layer in ethanol fuels than methanol
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Pbandgrassroots
Champion Author
Wisconsin
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Message Posted: Aug 5, 2010 1:50:46 PM
to bad you can make ethanol out of just about anything: grass clippings, tree bark, municipal waste, fruits, vegetables, leaves, sugar cane etc.. um.. way to go California
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robinhoodtdi
All-Star Author
Seattle
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Message Posted: Jul 31, 2010 3:30:30 PM
to bad the US is in love with corn syrup
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VetteBlue
Champion Author
San Jose
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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2010 8:25:23 AM
Way too soon to say corn is gone.
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