Duke90
All-Star Author
Pennsylvania
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:28:28 PM
Amen brother!!
Duke90
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 4:18:39 PM
jsoko can I ask you a favor? Can you explain to Shockjock1961 why his writing quoted below is a personal opinion not a fact? You can even omit incorrect 40%+. I've noticed that you were nice enough to correct someone else. Can you do the same for Shockjock1961?
"Using 40%+ of our harvested corn crop to make a non-competitive fuel sure makes it seem like Big Ag and Big Banks are doing nothing more then playing craps with millions of peoples lives..."
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 4:13:36 PM
Shockjock1961 at his finest. After getting caught in his own lies he starts the personal attacks. Next stop, him trying to tell me, without proof, that I called him names first.
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jacksfan
Champion Author
Lincoln
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 3:13:20 PM
"The simple FACT is that we used 40% of our corn harvest last year to make ethanol. It's a simple FACT and easy to verify (in fact it has been)."
That's a bald-faced lie, and shocky knows it -- and that's not even taking into account that at least one third of the corn used to produce ethanol is returned to the food chain. Shocky's FACTS are FACTS in his mind only, but he believes that if he repeats them often enough, someone might start to believe him.
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 2:31:45 PM
"Let get to the subject on hand"
I am. The simple FACT is that we used 40% of our corn harvest last year to make ethanol. It's a simple FACT and easy to verify (in fact it has been). If you are too lazy or just to stupid to use a search engine, that's your problem.
You know what I think I will take jsoko's advice. He seems to be a smart person with a balanced perspective. You could learn something from him.
Anyway, off you go to the land where I don't have to listen to your incessant BS...
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krzysiek_ck
Champion Author
Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 1:29:38 PM
"And I proved that FACT to you in another forum."
Since you obviously can not drop it I will do this for you one time. Here are the facts from the previous thread:
1. You cannot read and I had to post the same information multiple times just for you.
2. You do not follow your awn advises. Plural, because you are full of them.
3. You have a serious issues understanding differences between facts and your opinion.
4. You use different tactics to try to use smarter at expense of others.
And these are the FACTS. Now lets get to the subject on hand. And, since you will not get it the first time here it is again. Let get to the subject on hand.
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 10:11:02 AM
"Shock, your sources don't mention using yellow dent for ethanol production."
[L=http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/1584/text deleted dent corn is most commonly used to produce ethanol and DDGS because it is an excellent source of readily fermentable starch.[/L]
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jsoko
Champion Author
Detroit
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 10:07:53 AM
Shock, your sources don't mention using yellow dent for ethanol production.
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 10:06:22 AM
Typo sorry. Last year 2010. Is that Better nit picker? And I proved that FACT to you in another forum.
[Edited by: Shockjock1961 at 7/9/2011 11:10:29 AM EST]
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:55:44 AM
"Last year (2011) we used 40% of the harvested corn crop to produce ethanol. That my friend is a fact that is easily verified, not an opinion. Just look for yourself. Oh, first take off your blinders...."
Since you so big on proving everybody wrong go for it. Start with proving "Last year (2011)"
Since the 2011 harvested season is not over yet nothing about it is a fact. Why do you think the author of the article stated "In the 2011 harvest year, an estimated 40% of all corn acreage in the United States is expected to be grown for biofuel."?
Words like estimated and expected do not describe facts, but speculation and opinions.
[Edited by: krzysiek_ck at 7/9/2011 10:56:42 AM EST]
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:48:44 AM
"Corn for food does NOT equal corn for fuel, they are different!"
They use yellow dent for fuel correct? They use yellow dent for food:
Many believe that corn, more than any other grain during this new century, will be instrumental in feeding the world's ever growing population. Another name for Yellow Dent Corn is 'field corn.'
Corn is one of the most important production grains in the United States today. So the development of Yellow Dent Corn -- also known as "field corn" - had remarkable implications for U.S. farmers. Most of the corn grown in the United States today is Yellow Dent. It is the corn of choice for many food manufacturers and is used in corn chips and taco shells. Cornmeal is also derived from Yellow Dent Corn, which is used in the baking of cornbread, and other products. Corn starch is turned into fructose which is used as a sweetener in many processed foods and soft drinks.
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:42:45 AM
"In past years, before ethanol production was a serious option, you could drive by almost any elevator and see the mountains of excess corn .."
That's correct. The farmers didn't manage their crop because he knew that no matter how much corn he planted and no matter how low the price got he would always get paid by the taxpayer. Now they can get paid a very good price for their product while STILL having their hand stuck in the taxpayer pocket...
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:39:58 AM
"Could you be more specific and state the year you used to come up with your opinion?"
Last year (2011) we used 40% of the harvested corn crop to produce ethanol. That my friend is a fact that is easily verified, not an opinion. Just look for yourself. Oh, first take off your blinders....
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:38:18 AM
"Oh really. Try asking the folks in Brazil. Every single car runs on at least E22, and up to E100"
You are comparing apples and oranges. Brazil uses a WHOLE lot less energy then we do per capita...
"Or how about Sweden?"
Sweden imports virtually all it's ethanol...
"That is irrevelant and a false statement. It already has affected oil consumption. Your friends from the oil industry are already on record during testimony before Congress that ethanol has lessened demand for gasoline."
By what? 5%? Meanwhile world oil usage continues to climb...
"Concerning studies. If you apply the same standards to gasoline, you will be surprised to learn that it uses even more energy in its production than ethanol does."
It doesn't consume food stocks while doing so....
"And the real sin is the constant lies being told by members of the anti-ethanol gang"
And what were those things that you just told?
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jsoko
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Detroit
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 9:21:42 AM
Scare Tactic: Oil is a non-renewable resource; you use it, you lose it! Do you want your kids to go cold at night because you don't have oil to produce heat (or any other bs you want to say).
See I can make a scare tactic up about Regular oil!
Corn for food does NOT equal corn for fuel, they are different!
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 8:11:29 AM
Well said, MaggieMae07.
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MaggieMae07
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South Dakota
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Message Posted: Jul 9, 2011 2:55:05 AM
In past years, before ethanol production was a serious option, you could drive by almost any elevator and see the mountains of excess corn .. which often would spoil or be eaten by vermin before it could be stored or transported. What a waste of resources that was.. ethanol gives farmers an option in the marketplace. Whatever bio-fuels are made give us all more choices at the pump and more dollars staying at home.
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krzysiek_ck
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2011 5:47:29 PM
Article = "In the 2011 harvest year, an estimated 40% of all corn acreage in the United States is expected to be grown for biofuel."
Shockjock1961 = "Using 40%+ of our harvested corn crop to make a non-competitive fuel sure makes it seem like Big Ag and Big Banks are doing nothing more then playing craps with millions of peoples lives..."
Could you be more specific and state the year you used to come up with your opinion? I'm trying to figure out if you are trying to bend the article's numbers, or you are already speculating for 2012.
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wildman62
Rookie Author
Maryland
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2011 5:00:46 PM
Your pro-oil rhetoric impresses no one.
You and your friends worried about ethanol? Then just why has some of your buddies filed lawsuits against ethanol companies as they felt that the price of ethanol was too cheap at the pump?
" Ethanol can never scale up to enough production to ever seriously affect oil consumption. There's not enough arable dirt in the world."
Oh really. Try asking the folks in Brazil. Every single car runs on at least E22, and up to E100. Seems kind of funny that Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagon, and Peugeot can all make cars that do just fine on ethanol blends.
Or how about Sweden? They are well on the way to reaching their goal of eliminating oil imports by 2020. They are already running their buses on E95.
"Ethanol can never scale up to enough production to ever seriously affect oil consumption. There's not enough arable dirt in the world."
That is irrevelant and a false statement. It already has affected oil consumption. Your friends from the oil industry are already on record during testimony before Congress that ethanol has lessened demand for gasoline.
Concerning studies. If you apply the same standards to gasoline, you will be surprised to learn that it uses even more energy in its production than ethanol does.
"I just think that diverting portions of the human food-supply into fuel tanks is a sin against humanity."
And the real sin is the constant lies being told by members of the anti-ethanol gang.
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tomintx
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Dallas
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2011 4:22:42 PM
"Your fear mongering in the name of bigger profits for your beloved petroleum is sad."
1) It's not fear mongering if it's true.
2) Petroleum companies are not 0.1% worried about ethanol. They know that ethanol does not pose a threat to their profits at all.
- Ethanol can never scale up to enough production to ever seriously affect oil consumption. There's not enough arable dirt in the world.
- Depending on the study, Ethanol provides between 90% - 125% available energy compared to the energy used in its production. At best it's a slight improvement, at worst it causes even more energy consumption. Neither one of these cases concerns the oil companies in the least.
I have no love for oil companies. I just think that diverting portions of the human food-supply into fuel tanks is a sin against humanity.
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Shockjock1961
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Illinois
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2011 3:22:49 PM
Wow tomintx, your article is a real eye opener. The Big banks are treating the grain market just like they did the housing market! The big difference seems to be that if things tank your not just talking financial disruption, you are talking mass starvation!
Using 40%+ of our harvested corn crop to make a non-competitive fuel sure makes it seem like Big Ag and Big Banks are doing nothing more then playing craps with millions of peoples lives...
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jacksfan
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Lincoln
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Message Posted: Jul 8, 2011 3:02:31 PM
Typical lame scare tactic from a Big Oil shill.
Ethanol uses just 3% of the world's supply of grain on a net basis. Yes, if there's a bad harvest world-wide, millions may starve, but it won't be because of ethanol.
You should be ashamed, tomintx. Your fear mongering in the name of bigger profits for your beloved petroleum is sad.
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