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Author	Topic: Coal: The Ignored Juggernaut	Post a Reply Back to Topics

ccf_jeff Champion Author St. Louis Posts:15,265 Points:2,561,650 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:49:18 AM Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse Oil, natural gas, and alternatives dominate the headlines when it comes to energy. But there's a big and largely-overlooked revolution occurring with the energy source likely to become the most preferred fuel for a world in economic decline: coal. The United States coal sector has been hit very, very hard this spring. Demand has been crushed by over 10%, as warm weather and bountiful supplies of cheap natural gas have induced power plant operators and all other users where possible to switch away from domestic coal. Prices to import natural gas to most countries via LNG remain sky-high, easily protecting coal’s cost advantage. And the demand for coal in the developing world remains gargantuan. Accordingly, just as with oil, lower US demand simply frees up supply to elsewhere in the world Visit Peak Prosperity for full article

ccf_jeff

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St. Louis

Posts:15,265
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Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:49:18 AM

Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse

Oil, natural gas, and alternatives dominate the headlines when it comes to energy. But there's a big and largely-overlooked revolution occurring with the energy source likely to become the most preferred fuel for a world in economic decline: coal.

The United States coal sector has been hit very, very hard this spring. Demand has been crushed by over 10%, as warm weather and bountiful supplies of cheap natural gas have induced power plant operators and all other users where possible to switch away from domestic coal.

Prices to import natural gas to most countries via LNG remain sky-high, easily protecting coal’s cost advantage. And the demand for coal in the developing world remains gargantuan. Accordingly, just as with oil, lower US demand simply frees up supply to elsewhere in the world
Visit Peak Prosperity for full article

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NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,070 Points:1,619,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jul 2, 2012 2:47:20 PM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse The annointed 'defenders' of Big Coal and bad air have spoken with the "all-knowing definitive TRUTH and FACTS"! Big Coal has had the last 50 years to clean up their extremely unhealthy emmissions but could not be bothered with any concern about the health and welfare of all of us. Long live the latest coal barons!
SammyAdams Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:3,041 Points:789,860 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 2:50:02 PM Ignore SammyAdams Report Abuse To: NHLiveFree Re: Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 12:02:32 AM (Printed below) "What is that constant whining noise? Oh, never mind, it is only full moon time again and the usual suspects are just howling at the moon with ever so much industry misinformation!!!" ====================================================================== I would be interested in knowing precisely what "misinformation" to which you might be referring? There were some comments (Pro and con) regarding the usage of coal which might have been just conjecture based on data which wasn't revealed. I didn't give any of these (outside of amusement) any weight which would alter my personal views. And drpepperTX, Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 9:37:02 PM, stated some facts all preceded by "Fact:", many of which I was very familiar and knew to be true. Those which were not familiar, I found to be consistent with known verities and had no deep desire to pursue at the time. I, more as a footnote, added a modest "fact" which I never thought would send shock waves through this blog. Now, having read your comment, I am deeply interested in knowing which "fact" rankled your feathers that those of us who are less enlightened failed to grasp. Perhaps you would care to share some "facts" which would alter or, at least, mitigate our position on the use of coal as a source of energy. SA
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:749,935 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 11:36:36 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Yep, it's the fault of hydraulic fracturing, which is exactly why you see the push to end the process! The Eco-imperialists simply want to drive the cost of hydrocarbon fuels through the roof to satisfy their agenda.
BIGOILEATURCRUD Champion Author North Carolina Posts:5,747 Points:1,375,575 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 4:09:34 AM Ignore BIGOILEATURCRUD Report Abuse "supplies of cheap natural gas have induced power plant operators and all other users where possible to switch away from domestic coal." It's the frackers fault.
djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:10,082 Points:2,345,680 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Jul 1, 2012 3:11:32 AM Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse Obama would rather see us go broke than use coal and is doing everything in his power to make it happen.
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,070 Points:1,619,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:02:32 PM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse What is that constant whining noise? Oh, never mind, it is only full moon time again and the usual suspects are just howling at the moon with ever so much industry misinformation!!! Happy Fourth of July Week to All!!!!!!!!!!! [Edited by: NHLiveFree at 7/1/2012 12:03:28 AM EST]
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,070 Points:1,619,180 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 10:59:13 PM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse Time for the Coal Industry to clean it up. They have had more than long enough, but the coal barons want to have it all while sticking their heads in the sand.
SammyAdams Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:3,041 Points:789,860 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 9:50:39 PM Ignore SammyAdams Report Abuse The energy contained in recoverable coal reserves in AMERICA is equivalent to one trillion barrels of oil - roughly the same as the WORLD'S oil reserves. The crisis concerning the environment is contrived and BO is really at war with the middle class. Coal just happens to be the CURRENT scapegoat.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:749,935 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 8:37:02 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse We have to remember the facts. An informed America is a strong America. The EPA, Obama and the Eco-Imperialists would rather you did not have the facts listed below: Fact: Today's coal fired plants emit 90% less air pollutants than the previous generation. Fact: Coal is an abundant source of proven reliability. Fact: Coal is a secure domestic energy source, the US has 1/4 of the world's known supply and there's enough to power our needs for 250 years or more. Fact: Coal fired plants supply almost half of America's electricity. Fact: Due to increased efficiency today's coal plants emit less CO2 per KW produced. Fact: A Penn State University Study concluded that coal adds more than $1 TRILLION to the GDP PER YEAR, $360 Billion in extra household income PER YEAR and over 6.5 MILLION jobs. Fact: The PSU study also found that if coal plant reduction is just 33%, $160 BILLION would be lost in GDP, household income would be reduced by $64 BILLION and 1.2 MILLION jobs would be lost. Fact: Johns Hopkins University research shows the effect the above unemployment would have...it would also negatively affect health. Johns Hopkins University conducted the first major research on the impacts of unemployment on public health for the Joint Economic Committee of Congress in 1979 and 1984. In the 1984 study, it was found that every 1 percent increase in unemployment resulted in a 2 percent increase in premature deaths. The President's war on coal using the EPA as his weapon will have negligible effects on CO2 emmissions, will impose huge costs on an already fragile economy and bring about more health issues for Americans than reducing coal use will stop.
YumaFellow Champion Author Arizona Posts:1,270 Points:618,595 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 8:11:56 PM Ignore YumaFellow Report Abuse Coal is the fuel of the past. There are cleaner and better alternatives available.
VomVom Champion Author Calgary Posts:3,857 Points:1,627,080 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 7:00:38 PM Ignore VomVom Report Abuse One can use the Fischer Tropsch process to produce diesel from coal. South Africa has plants operating for years.
Jeff1944 Champion Author South Dakota Posts:4,217 Points:1,070,705 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 6:30:56 PM Ignore Jeff1944 Report Abuse So companies are exporting more.
Wally3023 Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:2,014 Points:536,355 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 5:20:47 PM Ignore Wally3023 Report Abuse Coal, nah
Cakes77 Champion Author Harrisburg Posts:5,140 Points:1,648,745 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 5:17:12 PM Ignore Cakes77 Report Abuse Get real - this isn't the moon. Leave that dirty stuff in the ground. This is the 21 st century.
batloverNM Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:3,938 Points:1,393,365 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 4:42:07 PM Ignore batloverNM Report Abuse Just blow the tops off of mountains in the SE US to get it. End mountaintop removal coal mining!
mikaye Champion Author Cleveland Posts:3,814 Points:861,410 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 3:30:46 PM Ignore mikaye Report Abuse epa will halt use
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,929 Points:749,935 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 2:53:12 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse If NG stays cheap (BIG IF) then a gradual trend off coal fired electric plants is market driven and as it should be. Problem is Obama and EPA won't tolerate a market shift, they shift by job killing mandate.
thizben All-Star Author Phoenix Posts:605 Points:283,795 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 2:35:31 PM Ignore thizben Report Abuse my hands got dirty just reading this!
TripleHs Champion Author Austin Posts:3,355 Points:915,140 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 2:30:42 PM Ignore TripleHs Report Abuse difficult to get rid of, and a better approach should be to find a better way to use it
gasmad666 Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,817 Points:389,145 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 2:20:16 PM Ignore gasmad666 Report Abuse Now where is my steam engine?
mastermariner Champion Author Texas Posts:4,236 Points:492,035 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 1:54:18 PM Ignore mastermariner Report Abuse It will come back
KE4YBZ All-Star Author Knoxville Posts:578 Points:555,885 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 1:41:24 PM Ignore KE4YBZ Report Abuse the only problem is getting to it! If drilling were an option, it would make more sense.. but with coal, you have to Go Get It!! Very labor intensive!
buckets42 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:1,690 Points:329,550 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 1:40:36 PM Ignore buckets42 Report Abuse It works.
doggod Champion Author Anchorage Posts:2,833 Points:738,435 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 1:09:45 PM Ignore doggod Report Abuse I missed a key piece in there somewhere. We started out talking about how coal mining companies are either going bankrupt or are possibly getting ready to, and then we started talking about how business was booming globally. What's the problem? US mining companies don't know how to export their coal? I dunno. Guess I'm too stupid for some of this stuff.
MontanaMac Champion Author Washington Posts:1,736 Points:410,050 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 12:00:49 PM Ignore MontanaMac Report Abuse The enviros leading the charge to make coal an evil scapegoat in this country have unwittingly built the case for exportation of coal to developing countries - with far less stringent pollution standards. End result - worse world wide pollution. Well done.
fedupMN Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,939 Points:570,530 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 12:00:05 PM Ignore fedupMN Report Abuse If only it could be a cleaner source of energy.....
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:34,089 Points:2,368,445 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:53:45 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse so many jobs lost
bigthighs All-Star Author Tucson Posts:550 Points:52,965 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jun 30, 2012 11:51:30 AM Ignore bigthighs Report Abuse coal was the original juggernaut and we are the saudi araba of coal