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For NY farmers, fracking means salvation _ or ruin

charlotteobserver.com -- In the middle of the debate over whether the gas unlocked by fracking is worth the risks of drinking water contamination and adverse health effects are the landowners who must decide whether to sell their mineral rights. Many are dairy farmers and many struggle under heavy debt.
While Fitzsimmons and others in his coalition look south and see the land of milk and honey, other farmers point to Pennsylvania as a case history for how the shale gas boom can be disastrous to agriculture.

..methane-contaminated wells; contractors destroying valuable timber for access roads; pipelines making cropland inaccessible; years of agricultural production lost and uncompensated; road damage that isolates families for weeks.

..Louisiana, where 17 cows died after drinking contaminated water.

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Submitted May 21, 2012 By: teafortwo

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drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,165 Points:779,850 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 24, 2012 8:21:02 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Good questions tea, glad you asked! "Speaking of loopholes, how can you look up chemical properties and health problems?" No loopholes there tea. Simply find the registered well, open the PDF file listing the chemicals used and tha CAS numbers are listed for each chemical. Then follow the links on this Page Tea also states ""Note the careful CYA wording. "All chemicals ... EXCEPT"? EXCEPT? :0\|" and "And, just in case you forgot, all chemical information before January 2011 is also "secret"". Umm, no tea, that's incorrect and a misinformed opinion. You are wrong on two counts. First, If you go into the site and look at the well listings you will find many that disclose the proprietary aka 'trade secret' chemicals listed, I have posted many of these, only the percentage is withheld to protect the driller from competitors stealing their percentage information. Second, as the link leads you, every chemical, even 'trade secret', must be labeled on the drill site with the chemical name and OSHA required MSDS sheets. This has alwaus been the case prior to the existence of the fracfocus website. All alleged 'loopholes' are closed, actually they are nonexistent. But please, continue to explore the fracfocus website! It is full of factual information and disclosure you have been looking for. And as always, when one seeks truth, the truth shall set you free! :=)
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,379 Points:1,412,840 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: May 24, 2012 6:03:49 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse How can you look up chemical properties and health problems? When parts of these fracking formulas are classified as "trade secrets"? according to FracFocus - FAQ? "What chemicals are being disclosed on this website?" "All chemicals that would appear on a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) that are used to hydraulically fracture a well except for those that can be kept proprietary based on the “Trade Secret” ‡ provisions related to MSDS found on the Trade Secret link at 1910.1200(i)(1). Read more... " Note the careful CYA wording. "All chemicals ... EXCEPT"? :0\| And, just in case you forgot, all chemical information before January 2011 is also "secret". ? Another "FracFocus - FAQ" "I know there are wells in my area that have been fractured, but when I search for them I get no results. Why?" "The most likely reasons are that either the wells were fractured before January 1, 2011 or they have not yet been entered into the system. Only wells fractured after January 1st will be entered into the system and since the uploading of records began only recently it will take some time before a large number of wells is available." Why is the fracking industry still fighting full disclosure? What are they hiding? Let's ask big TOBACCO why a multi BILLION dollar industry would risk lying to the public.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,165 Points:779,850 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 8:17:25 PM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse PDQBlues, without a credible source based on sound science, that's nothing but fear mongering to prey on the ignorant. I'd be all against fracing if science supported these claims. Facts dont bear that out however. Sadly, the anti fossil fuel folks can't base their argument in fact, if they could they might see some progress toward their goals. Fortunately, the majority of Americans realize that facts trump emotional propaganda. A great example was PDQ's blatant attempt at deception claiming that Fracfocus only lists water and sand in the chemical disclosure. I find laughable the ease with which that type of deception is disproven by the facts. And even more laughable the shrill cries of bait and switch that come out of these decievers keyboards!
PDQBlues Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,214 Points:1,476,025 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 7:55:50 PM Ignore PDQBlues Report Abuse If "ruin" you mean that the toxic chemicals used and released in fracking will eventually find its way into the drinking water and then the agriculture and other foods we eat so that people will stop buying that contaminated material, yes, ruin is the obvious outcome.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,165 Points:779,850 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 9:28:58 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse 1tallford, here you go: Gasland Lies Another on the lies of Gasland Still more liesThese are just a few of the many lies exposed. The "documentary" dishonest, yellow journalism at best.
1tallford Sophomore Author Rhode Island Posts:128 Points:22,225 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 8:47:02 AM Ignore 1tallford Report Abuse Still would like to hear the other side of the story from the proponents of fracking. I have seen gasland and am waiting for the rebuttal. The one that says the fears are from a left wing zealot and are unfounded. The one that says fracking is safe for our water supplies. I am a republican, grew up on a small midwest farm that the family no longer owns. I would not have done it either.
BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:8,882 Points:1,610,715 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 8:30:29 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse Fracking for salvation. Sounds Good.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,165 Points:779,850 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 7:27:56 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Oh dear, oh my! This same story was just posted a few hours ago by mastermariner.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:35,351 Points:2,399,070 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 5:38:00 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse liberals could care less about farms, hollywood is what matter to democraps....abo 2012............... [Edited by: humblepie at 5/21/2012 6:38:58 AM EST]
JuicyQ69 All-Star Author San Bernardino Posts:661 Points:1,164,005 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 12:34:52 AM Ignore JuicyQ69 Report Abuse Say what?!?
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,307 Points:1,651,065 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: May 21, 2012 12:24:19 AM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse The little guy farmers don't stand a chance on the legalize of any lease spelled out by their friendly drillers and their big time lawyers. There is not enough insurance to cover all the liabilities these landowners will be responsible for under the fine print of the lease terms.
lesndave Champion Author Texas Posts:3,178 Points:728,855 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:53:00 PM Ignore lesndave Report Abuse Tough
davenles Champion Author Texas Posts:3,341 Points:746,585 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:43:54 PM Ignore davenles Report Abuse Tough decisions.
rawdog1313 Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,444 Points:1,671,480 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:38:59 PM Ignore rawdog1313 Report Abuse Make it safe or don't do it!!
BobD2009 Champion Author Long Island Posts:7,134 Points:1,268,460 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:37:53 PM Ignore BobD2009 Report Abuse Fracking beats going bankrupt.
jem069 Champion Author Detroit Posts:2,684 Points:715,755 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:37:12 PM Ignore jem069 Report Abuse Ok
philthethrill Champion Author Hamilton Posts:9,870 Points:1,631,405 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:32:13 PM Ignore philthethrill Report Abuse not enough info about fracking
teafortwo Champion Author Washington Posts:22,379 Points:1,412,840 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: May 20, 2012 11:29:41 PM Ignore teafortwo Report Abuse FROM THE ARTICLE: While conventional dairy farms struggle, sustainable agriculture is growing, thanks to demand from New York City. Ken Jaffe raises grass-fed beef in the western Catskills and sells it to co-ops and high-end restaurants in the city, 160 miles to the southeast. He said gas drilling could destroy the livelihood of thousands of small farmers who cater to that market. The Park Slope Food Cooperative, which buys upward of $3 million worth of products from upstate farms, has told farmers its members won't buy products from any area that allows fracking, because they fear contamination. Chefs for the Marcellus, a group of restaurateurs, is calling for a ban on fracking. Members of the Northeast Organic Farming Association of New York passed a resolution in January calling for a ban on fracking. Landowner coalitions say they're not relying solely on the state to protect their land, but have built extensive protections into their leases. "I turned down an offer of $700,000 because the lease was really bad," said Jim Worden, who raises cows, corn, soybeans and oats near Binghamton. "We won't sign a lease that jeopardizes our family's future. It's not so much about money as about protecting yourself and the environment."